garageCube

[gmint]

After having switched to M8 from ArKaos and using M8 for a number of gigs, something has become apparent to me. M8 really has a much different approach to VJing. The most simple way that I can explain it is like this, M8 is like electronic (techno) DJing and ArKaos is like hip-hop DJing.

With ArKaos, I found my compisitions were made up largely by quickly triggering different layers. This resulted in a visually "quicker" show (I'm DEFINATELY not talking about the performance of the program here as M8 is SO much faster, I mean the look of the video). Things felt like the way quick cuts are used in hip-hop djing, quickly cutting from one track to the next. That was kind of inherent in the program since it basically has on/off access to clips via the keys.

On the other hand, M8 is a much more fade oriented program. Instead of punching in clips, it's a much more "smooth blend" oriented environment. Just like electronic DJing. For example, I usually start with one element (say a clip of someone break dancing), and I'll play it and maybe scratch it a bit. Then, I might matrix it, auto rotate it, and auto move it so it's basically a matrix flying around in space. Then I'll bring in another element and do a similar process, and so on and so forth.

It's not that I don't like the resulting look, it is just different. However, that got me to wondering, does anyone primarily mix with the first style in M8? If so, how do you do it? Even with my BCR-2000, I find it difficult to load and trigger stuff very quickly. At the max, you really only have access to 10 clips loaded at any one time whereas in Arkaos, you basically have 30-40 (or more) ready to go. I mean, it's not like I want to do it all the time, but sometimes this type of video seems like it would be more suitable to the music.

Any suggestions and/or comments would be appreciated!

[Stim]

Interesting that you mention this. I've been playing (still with the demo), and finding that what you say is dead on accurate. Since there really doesn't seem to be a good way to access a large bank of availble clips, M8 seems much more oriented to a slower style in terms of change-ups.

Hmmm.

[chromafresh]

I just read your post and played with M8 a bit. I have the computer keyboard setup to allow for numbers to select media in the "current media set" to apply to the "current layer" and managed to toggle between clips pretty well just using the number keys. Clips seem to take a little while to load into memory when doing this and get choppy, don't load right away at first, etc., but after about 20 seconds of reading one after another in, playback smooths out a bit.

Currently 1 through 0 selects the first 10 clips and shift 1-6 selects the rest. Obviously to toggle media outside of the media set one has to switch to the other set.
Its a little confusing anyway, as the media isn't numbered and its easy to forget what "square" correspongs to which number, and one doesn't want to have to count squares during a performance.

Thats my current setup but if I was to get more serious about this sort of toggle selection, I might want to rethink my keyboard selection of media.
Maybe 1 thru 0 and then QWERTY or something.

I think when GC starts rethinking the Media Set UI and programming, there are some other concerns other than just allowing for more media. Customizability is a must for sure. I would love to be able to organize media sets for different types of playback, tempos, color style, etc. So for example you might have a "scratch" media set (or two or three...) and a "collage" set. Just allowing for a degree of user customization would cover this of course.

Of course being able to assign midi to specific media would be nice too... Or being able to go into a mode that would allow one to "play" single layers in the current layer set... sort of like a solo playback key that would turn on the keyed layer (assignable to keyboard or midi) and turn off all others, for each of the ten layers... ah... wouldn't it be nice....

GMINT: I made a template for the BCR for use with Modul8. Would you be interested in a copy?

[gmint]

Ben,

The template would be great! I've got one setup but it's not what I would ultimately like so I would love to see some other ideas. Actually, the templates that Behringer provides are fairly good, sure beats making one by hand (like I did for M8 on my Evolution UC-16). Also, I was wondering, have you been able to get the BC-Edit software to work? Mine starts up but never sees the BCR and Behringer tech support is, as usual, no help.

I like your idea about triggering the clips. I'll have to give that a shot and see if I can do something cool with it...

[chromafresh]

My template is just an edited version of the one that came with the BCR. I have buttons organized and color coded according to function, so that:
rotation transforms are RED
time scrubs, speed, scratches etc, are CYAN
scaling related functions are BLUE, etc.

About BCEdit.... I gave up on that. Once I figured out how to copy presets, I just used the one that had the most controls functioning, and copied that one. I had to switch buttons so that they wouldn't toggle, but I think it was preset 15 that worked the best for me. I'm not very clear on how you are assigning layers to preset numbers, perhaps you could explain that...

Email me at the email link button below and I'll mail you my template in AI format (with and without outlines)

[gmint]

Yeah, I gave up on BC-Edit too. It's actually pretty simple and quick to program the BC manually (plus even if that god-awful ugly java program did work, I'm not sure it would actually make anything better). In any case, all I can say is PLEASE bring on the MIDI Feedback...

[Guest]

I do a lot of adding and subtracting of layers. I have the keyboard pretty well mapped to achieve a punchy set of changes if it is required but my style has always been less choppy. Perhaps this is why I love M8 so much. It really suits what I was already doing in aftereffects.