garageCube

[gmint]

Just wanted to say that I used Arkaos prior to Modul8 and I eagerly awaited release ever since it was announced. Now that I've purchased it and am about to use it for my first live gig (on a 35' video screen nevertheless!) tomorrow night. However, I've got to say, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IT!!! It really is one, if not THE, best v. 1.0 software I have ever seen.

Hear that? It's the sound of that buggy P.O.S. Arkaos being deleted off of my system...

At first, although I immediately recognized the incredibly elegant programming that makes Modul8 scream (oh, and BTW, thanks for a nice UI), I was kind of wondering how I would get by with what seems to be a limited number of effects. However, let me just say, the transparency and number of simeltaneous layers makes MUCH more incredible effects than anything I have seen before.

A couple of things I have noticed though. First, I would REALLY like to be able to have some identification of clips in the browser with some text. The icons are great, but I occassionally drop music videos into my show and it's hard to identify them without going into the edit dialog. Which brings me to my next request--more media. In addition to VJing, I DJ as well with Traktor and I have about 8,000 songs. Why shouldn't I have the ability to have the same (or at least a greater) selection than 90 or some clips.

And another thing, the layer sets. It's a cool idea but I don't like the fact that I can't crossfade or preview between layer sets. I'm sure that it would be a pretty massive processor (or GPU) load to preview 8 layers while playing another 8 on screen, but maybe there is some other way.

Oh, and I just wanted to say that I'm ALL in favor of multiple video inputs. ArKaos did it (albeit poorly) and I would love to see it in Modul8.

Again, I literally can't say enough about this program. This is literally an example of everything that is right with the Mac!

[yves@garagecube]

Thank you!

Regarding the media window, we are planning many improvements, one being a text view.

About cross-fading, we are working on a solution right now. It does not allow a full cross-fading between layer sets, but as you'll see it's a good midle path solution. Cross-fading between layer sets is still a difficult problem because of performances and memory requirements (it doubles the rendering time during the fading and requires the two sets to be in memory ).

Yves.

[Guest]

Regarding the media window, we are planning many improvements, one being a text view.

That's great to hear, I'll look forward to seeing it!

About cross-fading, we are working on a solution right now. It does not allow a full cross-fading between layer sets, but as you'll see it's a good midle path solution. Cross-fading between layer sets is still a difficult problem because of performances and memory requirements (it doubles the rendering time during the fading and requires the two sets to be in memory ).

Yea, I figured as much with the resource end of things, however it sounds like a limited version of a crossfade would still be just fine. I mean, right now I can pull a quick master alpha fade down on one set and back up on another to ease the transition and it's not SO bad. I guess it's just that every thing else is so damn cool that we're left to nit pick the small things. BTW, the layer cue and preview mix window are things of genius. Such an obvious idea (especially coming from the DJ world where no one would dream of mixing without the exact same features) yet so rarely implemented (at lest well implemented) in VJ software.

[gmint]

OK, so I did my gig last night and guess what, the $30,000 projection system (10k lumen projector + 35 ft. inflatable video screen) DIDN'T WORK!!! P.O.S production company The damn projector kept overheating every 2-3 minutes and shutting down. So, I didn't really get to get my groove on with Modul8. However, I did come up with a suggestion or two.

First, I usually perform with the video screen behind me so I can't see my master output. Because of setup limitations, bringing a monitor for the master out really isn't feasible. Of course M8 has the master output tab in the preview pane. However, I would REALLY be able to have the master output and the layer/mix tab active at the same time (just like when M8 is run on a single monitor system not in full screen) as the second monitor output is live. IMHO this would really make things easier. Would this present performance issues?

In any case, just a thought...

[gmint]

OK, so I played with M8 again this evening (very unusual for me to have two VJ jobs in one week) and it gave me some more time to discover things I like and things I don't about M8.

First, we definately need the following addition to the MIDI control section, I'll describe it in a second, but it's called "soft takeover" in Traktor DJ Studio. Basically, it works like this, say you switch from one layer set to another. Now, the faders, knobs, etc. on your MIDI controller will be different than the positions reflected by the current layer. Now, you go to adjust something and it jumps to wherever the physical controller is. Very inconvenient in many circumstances. What soft takeover does is essentially makes moving a MIDI fader do nothing until it reaches the position reflected by the on-screen fader, after which point, it works like normal. Hopefully my description isn't to archane here... One question, which I'll admit I haven't researched-- is this something that contextual MIDI could fix?

Secondly, I must say that I'm really not all that keen on the way the MIDI controllers get assigned to layers. I mean, on one hand, it can be nice that a layer is always assigned to a certain fader despite it's heirichial position. Then one fader can always control the same piece of media. However, more often than not, I find this very confusing (especially since there is no way to identify which layer is assigned to which control). I would much rather be able to simply have a constant set where the top layer is always assigned to controller 1, the next layer to controller 2, and so on and so forth. Maybe this could be an option?

Third, I noticed a couple of bugs (or potential bugs). I was playing in segments tonight and I noticed when I first started that the key map that I had defined previously was gone. I selected "save as default" as well as saving the set that I was working on and I got nothing. Basically, M8 just wiped out my nice custom key map. Strangely enough though, my MIDI map was still intact. Unfortunately though, this didn't last. I had an hour break in the middle of my set and M8 was getting very sluggish (another potential problem, however possibly related to the way I had my media loaded up--although it kind of felt like a memory leak) so I restarted my machine. Much to my shagrin, when I restarted M8 I had no MIDI map What's the deal here, is this a known bug? Also, while we're on the subject, could I suggest savable files for key maps?

Despite the foregoing minor problems, M8 never ceases to amaze me with its visual quality. It's truly stunning. I just can't wait for the new releases!

[gmint]

Since I made the previous post, I remembered some additional bugs that I experienced.

When switching between layer sets, I was getting some very weird behavior. Several times, the clips from the first layer would stay active until I adjusted a paramater on the layer at which time it would usually load the correct clip. On occassion, the clips on a layer would be TOTALLY screwed up.

[boris]

First, we definately need the following addition to the MIDI control section, I'll describe it in a second, but it's called "soft takeover" in Traktor DJ Studio. Basically, it works like this, say you switch from one layer set to another. Now, the faders, knobs, etc. on your MIDI controller will be different than the positions reflected by the current layer. Now, you go to adjust something and it jumps to wherever the physical controller is. Very inconvenient in many circumstances. What soft takeover does is essentially makes moving a MIDI fader do nothing until it reaches the position reflected by the on-screen fader, after which point, it works like normal. Hopefully my description isn't to archane here...

Yes, I hadn't thought of this solution, it's a good idea and not to complicated to impliment. We will include it in the next version of modul8.

Secondly, I must say that I'm really not all that keen on the way the MIDI controllers get assigned to layers. I mean, on one hand, it can be nice that a layer is always assigned to a certain fader despite it's heirichial position. Then one fader can always control the same piece of media. However, more often than not, I find this very confusing (especially since there is no way to identify which layer is assigned to which control). I would much rather be able to simply have a constant set where the top layer is always assigned to controller 1, the next layer to controller 2, and so on and so forth. Maybe this could be an option?

We are aware of this problem and are actually working on a new version which gives you the possibility to assign MIDI in accordance with a layer.
Exactly as you described it.

Third, I noticed a couple of bugs (or potential bugs). I was playing in segments tonight and I noticed when I first started that the key map that I had defined previously was gone. I selected "save as default" as well as saving the set that I was working on and I got nothing. Basically, M8 just wiped out my nice custom key map. Strangely enough though, my MIDI map was still intact. Unfortunately though, this didn't last. I had an hour break in the middle of my set and M8 was getting very sluggish (another potential problem, however possibly related to the way I had my media loaded up--although it kind of felt like a memory leak) so I restarted my machine. Much to my shagrin, when I restarted M8 I had no MIDI map What's the deal here, is this a known bug? Also, while we're on the subject, could I suggest savable files for key maps?

Concerning the MIDI and key map:
We have been notified about this problem before bu† have so far been unable to reproduce it.
Could you tell us the exact steps you took to hit this problem so we can look into it.

With regards to the memory problem, remember that if you go over the limit set by your machine the system is likely to swap and will use your hard disk as memory.
This will interfere with everything.
If you have lots of media or not enough ram remember to always test your sets beforehand.
Maybe there is one solution you can use without leaving modul8:
You can delete some media in your media set.

Despite the foregoing minor problems, M8 never ceases to amaze me with its visual quality. It's truly stunning. I just can't wait for the new releases!

Ok, thanks!
GarageCUBE* team

[gmint]

Boris,

Again, great to hear on the MIDI functionality, I'll definately look forward to trying it!

Concerning the MIDI and key map:
We have been notified about this problem before bu† have so far been unable to reproduce it.
Could you tell us the exact steps you took to hit this problem so we can look into it.

Well, I'll give you as much detail as possible although I can really only think of one or two things that could have caused it. Basically on losing the key map, I really can't think of anything. I shut down Modul8 (after saving the key and MIDI maps, of course) normally the day before my gig and when I went to play...nothing. It is possible that Modul8 MAY have crashed upon importing a media set once (although I didn't attempt to connect my beamer while Modul8 was running, I did do it while my machine was on, which Modul8 doesn't seem to like sometimes). Whatever the case, what is strange is that I lost the key map but not the MIDI map.

However, as I described in a previous post, I lost the MIDI map after taking a break. At that point, about the only thing that I can think of is that Modul8 took an exorbatantly long time to quit when I went on break. As I said previously, everything was getting very sluggish so I quit Modul8 and restarted my machine. I would say that it took at least 1-2 minutes of the rainbow wheel spinning for Modul8 to fully quit. Then, when I came back, no MIDI map.

In any case, I can't really point to any one thing that I can specifically think of that would break the maps, but I hope this description helps.

[core]

First, we definately need the following addition to the MIDI control section, I'll describe it in a second, but it's called "soft takeover" in Traktor DJ Studio. Basically, it works like this, say you switch from one layer set to another. Now, the faders, knobs, etc. on your MIDI controller will be different than the positions reflected by the current layer. Now, you go to adjust something and it jumps to wherever the physical controller is. Very inconvenient in many circumstances. What soft takeover does is essentially makes moving a MIDI fader do nothing until it reaches the position reflected by the on-screen fader, after which point, it works like normal. Hopefully my description isn't to archane here...

Yes, I hadn't thought of this solution, it's a good idea and not to complicated to impliment. We will include it in the next version of modul8.

This option can be really cool

And midi feedback, to see the faders of my BCF 2000 moving when I switch the layer set ? Is it easy to impliment ?

If you want to have a look to the BCF 2000
http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

[boris]

Since I made the previous post, I remembered some additional bugs that I experienced.

When switching between layer sets, I was getting some very weird behavior. Several times, the clips from the first layer would stay active until I adjusted a paramater on the layer at which time it would usually load the correct clip. On occassion, the clips on a layer would be TOTALLY screwed up.

This particularly case can happen when you have no more sufficient memory on your machine. Some media are no longer stored in
the memory.
To prevent blocage, media will only reapear once that they are recharged in memory. In the meantime old media will stay visible, this can create the weird behavior you mention.

How much ram do you have on your computer ?

GarageCUBE* team *

[boris]

This option can be really cool

And midi feedback, to see the faders of my BCF 2000 moving when I switch the layer set ? Is it easy to impliment ?

If you want to have a look to the BCF 2000
http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Yes I am familiar with this controler but haven't used it.

This would in deed change the fader positions on your BCF 2000.
In theory this should not be to complicated to impliment, but I haven't got a BCF 2000 on hand at the moment to try it out.

GarageCUBE* team *

[gmint]

How much ram do you have on your computer ?

I am running a PB G4 1 GHz w/ 768 Megs RAM.

[boris]

Well, I'll give you as much detail as possible although I can really only think of one or two things that could have caused it. Basically on losing the key map, I really can't think of anything. I shut down Modul8 (after saving the key and MIDI maps, of course) normally the day before my gig and when I went to play...nothing. It is possible that Modul8 MAY have crashed upon importing a media set once (although I didn't attempt to connect my beamer while Modul8 was running, I did do it while my machine was on, which Modul8 doesn't seem to like sometimes). Whatever the case, what is strange is that I lost the key map but not the MIDI map.

However, as I described in a previous post, I lost the MIDI map after taking a break. At that point, about the only thing that I can think of is that Modul8 took an exorbatantly long time to quit when I went on break. As I said previously, everything was getting very sluggish so I quit Modul8 and restarted my machine. I would say that it took at least 1-2 minutes of the rainbow wheel spinning for Modul8 to fully quit. Then, when I came back, no MIDI map.

In any case, I can't really point to any one thing that I can specifically think of that would break the maps, but I hope this description helps.

I have just succeded to reproduce the problem you described thanks to your descriptions. In fact it's quite a vicious bug. The MIDI MAP will be deleted from your preferences when you'll save the KEY MAP, and vise versa. But you will only notice it when you restart Modul8. I had not noticed this problem since I always try to save only one of them before I restart the software. When you told me that you had both erased once, I understood the cause for this bug.
Since I consider this to be an anoying problem I've come up with a small update which fixes this. It will be online in a few hours.

GarageCUBE* team *

[gmint]

Man Boris, you are great! If only everyone developed software like you guys do. I mean, I paid about the same amount for Traktor DJ Studio by Native Instruments and it takes them literally months to release small updates for long standing bugs. And, I'm quite sure they have a larger staff--though it's quite apparent their developers are nowhere near as compitent as you guys are!

[core]

[

Since I consider this to be an anoying problem I've come up with a small update which fixes this. It will be online in a few hours.

GarageCUBE* team *

Your support is AMAZING !!!!!