Future of Modul8
  • newdendrite
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by newdendrite » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:11 pm

    We really don't know how much better the retina machines will be in terms of graphics speed. They'll be burdened with a much higher resolution screen in addition to the video output. I'm thinking about buying a new non-retina MacBook Pro's just for the improved graphics card and increased memory. At least the additional graphics power should be fully available to Modul8 in that case.

    It's a shame we have to keep spending and spending in attempts to address this problem -- especially since we don't even know if the new Mac's will actually solve it.

    Best regards,
    Michael
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    gmint
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:28 pm

    newdendrite wrote:We really don't know how much better the retina machines will be in terms of graphics speed. They'll be burdened with a much higher resolution screen in addition to the video output. I'm thinking about buying a new non-retina MacBook Pro's just for the improved graphics card and increased memory. At least the additional graphics power should be fully available to Modul8 in that case.


    That's true. However, in my case I'm on a Late 2008 MBP (2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo w/ 512 meg VRAM) so I'm fairly confident that the graphics speed will be much better no matter which way I go. Generally, the max Modul8 composition that I run with this setup is a 2048 x 768 (DualHead2Go) which isn't a huge amount of pixels to push.

    I've said it before, but I think it bears saying again: I really wish there were some more performance metrics/transparency/etc. when it comes to Modul8. We know what the best video codecs are, but that's about it. I mean, in another thread I asked about pre-loading to RAM vs. running direct from disk off of an SSD and there seem to be no real answers as far as that is concerned. Same goes for VRAM, graphics cards, and processor speed. We REALLY don't know how much affect any of these components have beyond a very basic understanding. For example, let's say I turned down the resolution on my main MacBook display (not that I'd want to, but it's akin to what you're suggesting with the retina display) would that result in Modul8 running faster on the external display? Obviously, that's relevant information and it would be nice if we could get some input on this...
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by anomad » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:11 am

    gmint wrote:I've said it before, but I think it bears saying again: I really wish there were some more performance metrics/transparency/etc. when it comes to Modul8.


    . +1 to that !

    . it would be nice to get some sort of benchmarking going on... maybe it's the OS? maybe it's some other piece of software in the background? maybe it's a poorly coded module running... it would be a nice addition to Modul8 to get some sort of performance metric so we can keep our systems running optimally or at least have an idea of what type of performance to expect... even if it is a simple Frames Per Second number.

    . regarding your DualHead2Go - i'm curious how the two Thunderbolt ports will work for video outs... maybe two TripleHead2Gos running off a new MBP? :)


    -james
    (a nomad. )
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    gmint
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:26 am

    Yes, benchmarks would be a huge help! I thought about maybe doing some real basic benchmarking but unfortunately, as someone pointed out earlier, Modul8 does, from at least some indications, seem to be a dead product. And, there's not much point in gathering that info if nothing is ever going to be done about it. I don't want to believe that's the case, but I have to say that I'm pretty discouraged by the level of response from GarageCube to all of this discussion.

    Regarding the THTG and Thunderbolt ports, I'm not sure I'll have a reason to test out that scenario, but I'm sure we'll know more about that soon...
  • ilan

    Re: Future of Modul8

    by ilan » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:41 am

    I will repeat this again as I already have done on this thread: Modul8 is not dead. It is being worked on as I write this.

    There are plenty of companies that are not transparent in their communications about product development, and they have good reasons for this.

    There will be new things coming by the end of the year, and they will be Modul8 related.
  • bareimage
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by bareimage » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:36 pm

    Perfectly understandble...

    Ilan, what do you think about new Retina Display Mac, or should we just start making hackintoshes :)

    ilan wrote:I will repeat this again as I already have done on this thread: Modul8 is not dead. It is being worked on as I write this.

    There are plenty of companies that are not transparent in their communications about product development, and they have good reasons for this.

    There will be new things coming by the end of the year, and they will be Modul8 related.
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    gmint
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:38 pm

    ilan wrote:I will repeat this again as I already have done on this thread: Modul8 is not dead. It is being worked on as I write this.

    There are plenty of companies that are not transparent in their communications about product development, and they have good reasons for this.

    There will be new things coming by the end of the year, and they will be Modul8 related.


    ilan, we've heard you say that but so far, from all appearances, a minor update of Modul8 with Syphon input appears to be about all that we're waiting on. If that's something that we're waiting for the end of the year for, well, let's just say that I for one hope that's not it...

    Couldn't you at least address some of the concerns regarding the underlying architecture of Modul8? As I've said before, for me personally, it's not so much about new features as much as it is addressing what really seems to be an aging codebase. Personally, I'd just kind of like to know if you guys are sitting back and saying "all of you users are crazy, Modul8 runs great and we don't think that's a concern" or if there is work being done in that area. I've just got to imagine that with all of the advancements in processors (especially multi-cores), video hardware, and massive amounts of RAM, that Modul8 has some room for optimization.

    I can certainly understand if you don't want to divulge your master plan, but at least throw us a bone here...
  • newdendrite
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by newdendrite » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:22 pm

    ilan,

    This is a disappointing response. IMHO, you haven't heard the users' needs accurately. Unless the "new" features address old problems, they won't solve the issues we are discussing.

    The basic issue is that M8 drops frames under certain circumstances, and this creates discontinuous output that looks bad. In my experience, this happens on two occasions:

    1. When several layers are running clips simultaneously,
    2. When clips are loaded from a mediaset to a layer.

    These are core functions for any VJ app, and your users would like to know that the development team will keep them optimized. If you want an example of this frame dropping, take a look at the tutorial for the new Gener8 modules. As clips are moved, you will see brief pauses in the output. The frame dropping gets worse when a second screen in use, as would be required for performance.

    In a set where sources are keyed rapidly, this is less noticeable. But some of us do slow sets where steady frame rates are important to the audience experience. Isn't there a way to prevent this frame dropping, even if the interface responds more slowly to drag-and-drop and other commands?

    The folks discussing this problem are your fans, your regular users, and your best source of new customers, if they remain satisfied with your product.

    Best regards,
    Michael
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by vanakaru » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:08 pm

    good example is in this video at 6.00 onwards. Just 3 layers running one with PNG+ 1024x768.

    https://vimeo.com/29879872

    I needed to drop a clip in the media bin and result is on screen. In the past this never happened with Powerbook G4. Now with good intel mac running just the OS and Modul8 off SSD we get this. I have reduced my shows to bare minimum so I can hardly create what I want - few clips, 3 layers, no intensive effects and I get stutters still.
    I think it is very important to find out where the problem is. Is it Modul8, OS X, mac hardware.
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:20 pm

    vanakaru wrote:I needed to drop a clip in the media bin and result is on screen. In the past this never happened with Powerbook G4. Now with good intel mac running just the OS and Modul8 off SSD we get this. I have reduced my shows to bare minimum so I can hardly create what I want - few clips, 3 layers, no intensive effects and I get stutters still.
    I think it is very important to find out where the problem is. Is it Modul8, OS X, mac hardware.


    Exactly.
  • newdendrite
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by newdendrite » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:13 am

    @vanakaru: This is the same type of stuttering I'm seeing in my sets.

    Best regards,
    Michael
  • bareimage
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by bareimage » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:11 am

    What is the best video software?

    I am using Modul8 for 2 years. Only now VDMX is coming close, and COGE might be as good but in a radically different way
    janine wrote:i stopped using modul8 4 years ago.
    the technical design is so old fashioned.

    if you have to earn your money with video shows it is impossible to do it with modul8.
    the output quality is to bad.
    its a shame, that the software has got no main update since 2005.

    at its time, modul8 was the best software.

    respectfully,
    janine
  • bareimage
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by bareimage » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:13 am

    Is there any way you can dropbox this video and post it with Modul8 File

    I have three machines and I want to run comperesment between Coge Modul8 VDMX and self-made VJ app in Max MSP

    vanakaru wrote:good example is in this video at 6.00 onwards. Just 3 layers running one with PNG+ 1024x768.

    https://vimeo.com/29879872

    I needed to drop a clip in the media bin and result is on screen. In the past this never happened with Powerbook G4. Now with good intel mac running just the OS and Modul8 off SSD we get this. I have reduced my shows to bare minimum so I can hardly create what I want - few clips, 3 layers, no intensive effects and I get stutters still.
    I think it is very important to find out where the problem is. Is it Modul8, OS X, mac hardware.
  • vanakaru
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by vanakaru » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:32 pm

    bareimage wrote:Is there any way you can dropbox this video and post it with Modul8 File


    It is nothing special. Just make few sec long clips 1024x768 PhotoJPG 85% and PNG+.
  • newdendrite
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by newdendrite » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:41 pm

    @vanakaru: Are your clips really only a few seconds long? I thought one of the issues might be longer clips -- larger numbers of frames in RAM. If your clips are that short, then filling up RAM would not seem to be the problem. How many total seconds of video did you have loaded in all layers of M8 when the problem occurred?

    Best regards,
    Michael

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