Future of Modul8
  • bareimage
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by bareimage » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:47 pm

    @Ilan! You know that I am a big supporter of your software. Modul8 still has the best rendering of content on the market, period. Your software is extremely stable and is awesome. But since I do a lot of mapping I find my self using Mad Mapper with bunch of MaxMsp / Processing patches and glitching output between them, (with 1.2 it became even more possible and feasible for this kind of operation) The problem is that save for the time when I use my own syphon mixer it is impossible to get the syphon content into modul8 and it would be awesome if you can get qc environment / syphon / and ffgl into Modul8. I know you heard it before but I am annoying guy...

    So far my practice is as follows

    MaxMsp ---- Syphon-----\
    Processing--Syphon------VDMX ---- MAD MAPER
    Modul8--------Syphon------/

    If Modul8 would have the options I need I would be overjoyed and my system would be much more stable

    ilan wrote:@JaylikeBird MapMapMap is a module for Modul8 that was created by Anomes. It is essentially a greatly enhanced version of the perspective transform module. You are likely referring to MadMapper.

    What you all need to do is to step back and look at the bigger picture:

    - Resolume Ave 3 took 6 years to develop
    - VDMX5 is still in beta
    - Grand VJ was not a major leap in evolution from Arkaos and that too took years to develop and release

    Despite these conditions these companies have continued to exist.

    If you are not happy with what exists, there are plenty of other tools to choose from. If you want amazing flexibility and an effective open wide choice of building what you want you can jump into processing or Open Frameworks. This is where most people go when they want to take their visuals 'to the next level.'

    From a personal perspective if you are just doing visuals, then I would try to spend more time exploring innovative approaches to building installations that you can project on, as the effectiveness of simple screen projection is quickly becoming the spectacle of the past. Hence the introduction of MadMapper.

    At the current time Modul8 is making a lot of people very happy. People who are new to VJ'ing or just using it for artistic purposes or event production purposes who don't even know what VJ'ing. These people are making future development possible for us as well as maintaining very responsive technical support.

    To answer this thread firmly and conclusively, we are definitely working Modul8.
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    The Midi Thief
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by The Midi Thief » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:05 pm

    gmint wrote:More interaction with external programs (e.g. Quartz Composer, Syphon Input, etc.) - I've been wanting to do a live twitter feed in Modul8 for some time. I have a QTZ file that does what I want, but without a lot of hacks (which I'm afraid could stop working, if I can get them working) it's not at all easy to do. I had thought about doing this directly in a module only to find out that the module system is stuck on Python 2.3. I can't do it directly with the QTZ file because it accesses the internet. That leaves the hacked syphon input as the only way.


    This should be able to do in Python 2.3 using the Mini Dom library. I don't think a Twitter feed falls so much on the ability to read the feed as the ability to style the feed typographically. So what if you can get a Tweet? Do you style all the text the same way or waste several layers to display the byline, the tweet and the time stamp? I think the typography functions in Modul8 are utterly lame, but maybe that goes for most VJ software. I see it as a HUGE disadvantage not being able to work with live type. I ended up doing my Twitter feed in QC and sending it over Syphon to Modul8. If you don't want to use Syphon you can have QC running and save the Twitter feed to an xml and have a QC comp in Modul8 that reads from the XML. That should work but you don't want to check the XML too often to create unnecessary disc activity.

    gmint wrote:Also, like I said before, it would also be nice if the module system could be updated to reference a more recent version of python..


    I think it will be updated soon but maybe not to the most current version. It has to do with with dropping support on older systems. I guess it would be OK to drop support for Systems older than 10.6.8 but you don't really want to force people to use Lion. The latest version is not fully compatible with systems below 10.6.8 anyway. I'm thinking of the Syphon output.
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    gmint
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:09 pm

    The Midi Thief wrote:This should be able to do in Python 2.3 using the Mini Dom library. I don't think a Twitter feed falls so much on the ability to read the feed as the ability to style the feed typographically. So what if you can get a Tweet? Do you style all the text the same way or waste several layers to display the byline, the tweet and the time stamp? I think the typography functions in Modul8 are utterly lame, but maybe that goes for most VJ software. I see it as a HUGE disadvantage not being able to work with live type. I ended up doing my Twitter feed in QC and sending it over Syphon to Modul8. If you don't want to use Syphon you can have QC running and save the Twitter feed to an xml and have a QC comp in Modul8 that reads from the XML. That should work but you don't want to check the XML too often to create unnecessary disc activity..


    I probably should have been more clear in what I said. I'm sure what I want to do can probably be accomplished in Python 2.3, but I'm not at all proficient in Python. I found some library that I could, even with my rudimentary Python knowledge, probably implement but it requires a later version. The long and short of it is (and I'm sure you get this) is that I really hope that Modul8 can make getting remote (i.e. internet based) content much less of a hack. A great example of something that was just brilliant was when Modul8 started natively handling folders of images. That single feature made my life just sooooooo much easier. I was doing what I wanted to do with the slideshow module before, but it felt very hacked together. Once that feature was introduced it was just much smoother.

    If we even had some basic protocol access, it seems like there would just be a multitude of possibilities. Like I said, if I really wanted a twitter feed, I'm sure I could make it work with what's available, but for me, it's more of a novelty that I just don't have the time to hack together at this point. Also, like you said, the formatting options would be a bear and that does make it a little less compelling...
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by The Midi Thief » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:20 pm

    Yeah, I can't agree more. I've done some fun API stuff with QC in VDMX. I wish I could do the same with the same ease in M8. I've been asking for better Quartz integration for years. As I understand it, it isn't that easy to implement and it hasn't been prioritized either.
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    gmint
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:30 pm

    The Midi Thief wrote:Yeah, I can't agree more. I've done some fun API stuff with QC in VDMX. I wish I could do the same with the same ease in M8. I've been asking for better Quartz integration for years. As I understand it, it isn't that easy to implement and it hasn't been prioritized either.


    I know you've done some really awesome QC stuff. Unfortunately, I just haven't been able to spend the time to really get into QC and understand it. I've considered using it in lieu of Modul8 for some installation stuff, but it seems like the time that I'd need to achieve what I can do in M8 would be pretty significant (and I don't do this full-time or anything). Same goes for VDMX. I've looked at it, but there again, I really do love M8 and except for this particular area, I don't find myself to be constrained by a lack of features.

    I certainly don't want to make it sound like I'm hating on Modul8 or anything like that, it just seem to me that the way the (little bit of) creativity that I have keeps pushing me towards things like integrating with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and things like that. And, that's the area where M8 is kind of cut off from the outside world so to speak...
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by The Midi Thief » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:55 pm

    Yeah, can't beat the simplicity and stability of Modul8. VDMX has gotten better after they redesigned the interface. I think there is a call for a third party app that moshes data together and send it to different apps. I saw this thing recently: http://www.glitchfairy.com/ABOUT-and-GET-IN-TOUCH (might be someone in this community, even in this thread?) which is a step in that direction. Several people has pointed out to me that OSC is a good way to send text between apps. Oh, better/native OSC handling in Modul8 is another must. QC is not that great for treating complex streams of data. It gets very messy very soon. I did a prototype for a SMS messages that popped up in speech bubbles for a video mapping. I got it to work but it was hard to get many of them at the same time. The final thing (that wasn't made by me) was created in Open Frameworks and handled the text messages, queueing, filtering etc. And it was rendered in Unity 3D with shadows and fancyness. My version was all ghetto and used an old Sony Ericsson phone and an obsolete software with very flaky documentation.
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by The Midi Thief » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:07 am

    At the latest Shiffi Hack session in Berlin, someone made a site... or more like a proposal for a site that was a guide to diffrent APIs. So that you can play with it and understand the API without having to dig into nasty documentation written for and by techies. Here's the blog post: http://blog.jaggeree.com/post/203658352 ... a-tutorial. Nice approach. I wish there was a whole bunch of these examples.
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    gmint
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:05 am

    The Midi Thief wrote:Oh, better/native OSC handling in Modul8 is another must.


    Totally agreed except I have to say that I'm not 100% sold on the future of OSC. When I tried to use it in Modul8 to work with my iPad it was horribly frustrating to the point where I just quit and used MIDI instead. Also, while it's just one particular manufacturer, I know that Traktor used to have OSC but it's been completely dropped from the product for several years now. Seems to me like one of those protocols where it's got a lot of potential but just enough inconcistency to be more frustrating than truly useful.

    Oh, and thanks for the links, definitely going to check them out!
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by The Midi Thief » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:25 am

    Disclaimer: those links are not that useful YET.
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:40 am

    The Midi Thief wrote:Disclaimer: those links are not that useful YET.


    It's cool, I looked at them already. In the meantime, I spent another hour or so modifying a module so that it will read a text file when the module loads as opposed to when the "Load File" button is pushed (if I weren't an idiot in Python, this probably would have taken about a minute) but this is essentially the kind of thing that I'm talking about here: a task that should be really simple can take a lot of time unless you really know what you're doing. It seems to me that reading from a text file ought to be something that's just a built in option (or at least a stock module). But I'm sure everyone gets the point by now...
  • ilan

    Re: Future of Modul8

    by ilan » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:56 am

    It's true about OSC. A lot of potential but incredibly frustrating to use. Scenario, you are at a gig and you spontaneously want to map a slider to the blur knob in Modul8. With OSC this would not be possible. Even TouchOSC now supports MIDI.

    But I think this thread has greatly deviated off topic. I propose a new thread to discuss OSC vs. MIDI.
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by gmint » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:43 pm

    ilan wrote:It's true about OSC. A lot of potential but incredibly frustrating to use. Scenario, you are at a gig and you spontaneously want to map a slider to the blur knob in Modul8. With OSC this would not be possible. Even TouchOSC now supports MIDI.

    But I think this thread has greatly deviated off topic. I propose a new thread to discuss OSC vs. MIDI.


    I concur: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8192
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by bareimage » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:35 pm

    The Glitchfairy is my project . I am currently working on some cool and free max msp staff that is designed to help out with Mad Mapper and Modul8.

    Would anyone be interested in application that helps VJ to control their performances with Brain Sensor?

    The Midi Thief wrote:Yeah, can't beat the simplicity and stability of Modul8. VDMX has gotten better after they redesigned the interface. I think there is a call for a third party app that moshes data together and send it to different apps. I saw this thing recently: http://www.glitchfairy.com/ABOUT-and-GET-IN-TOUCH (might be someone in this community, even in this thread?) which is a step in that direction. Several people has pointed out to me that OSC is a good way to send text between apps. Oh, better/native OSC handling in Modul8 is another must. QC is not that great for treating complex streams of data. It gets very messy very soon. I did a prototype for a SMS messages that popped up in speech bubbles for a video mapping. I got it to work but it was hard to get many of them at the same time. The final thing (that wasn't made by me) was created in Open Frameworks and handled the text messages, queueing, filtering etc. And it was rendered in Unity 3D with shadows and fancyness. My version was all ghetto and used an old Sony Ericsson phone and an obsolete software with very flaky documentation.
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by lotech » Tue May 01, 2012 2:45 am

    Well it looks like we might have an idea on what's in store with Modul8 in a week or so.

    From the MadMapper blog -
    A special presentation will take place during the Mapping Festival May 11th. Geneva, Switzerland.

    Join us for an exclusive preview of new features for the upcoming releases of MadMapper and Modul8, to be presented to you by the developers themselves, as well as demonstrations of new dedicated MIDI controllers for Modul8.
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    Re: Future of Modul8

    by The Midi Thief » Tue May 01, 2012 8:34 am

    One of them is probably the beer proof Activ8 that went back in to development. I wouldn't be surprised if it's two new Codanova controllers from what's been hinted the last year.

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