TouchOSC + OSC Global module
  • mowgli_uk
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    TouchOSC + OSC Global module

    by mowgli_uk » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:49 pm

    I'm trying to develop a TouchOSC template without using osculator targeting direct modul8 keywords in the OSC address field in the touchOSC editor. So far I've had mixed results but I'm hitting some hurdles

    When I use:
    /md8key/ctrl_layer_alpha/1
    /md8key/ctrl_layer_alpha/2
    /md8key/ctrl_layer_alpha/3 etc...
    to control layer transparency it works fine for all the layers and the touchOSc interface receives feedback when the modul8 interface is adjusted. Cool.

    When I use:
    /md8key/ctrl_layer_hidden/1
    /md8key/ctrl_layer_hidden/2 etc...
    to switch layers on and off it works fine too and feedback is also received but there is one small issue, the button for this on the touchOSC interface behaves the opposite way that I'd like ie: if the button light is on I want the layer to be active and at present it is the opposite. Is there a simple way to change this? maybe with osculator

    When I use:
    /md8key/ctrl_layerStack_focusPosition/1
    to select layer 1 it works but using:
    /md8key/ctrl_layerStack_focusPosition/2
    also selects layer1
    I've connected the OSC feedback from md8 to osculator for monitoring purposes and when you select a layer in the md8 interface the messages that appear in osculator independently of which is the selected layer are:

    /md8key/ctrl_layerStack_focusPosition/-1
    &
    /md8key/ctrl_layerStack_focusPosition/10

    Is there no way of selecting a layer or receiving feedback on the active layer using keywords?


    I'm learning this by trial and error as I can't find much information on the specific subject anywhere and I know little about OSC So any help is welcome.
    So far I can see that using osculator might make things easier and more versatile but I was hoping to make a touchOSC interface that works straight away natively in OSC.
    Back to reading the osculator documentation...
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    gmint
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    by gmint » Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:06 am

    I'm trying to do much the same thing and also I don't really like the idea of having another layer of translation (e.g. OSCulator) Unfortunately, my experience thusfar hasn't been good.

    Although it seems like Modul8 supports a pretty robust set of OSC commands, I'm finding that something (I'm not sure if it's TouchOSC or Modul8 or the OSC protocol itself) seems to be lacking in some pretty major areas. Even simple things like creating a bank of buttons to control the layersets is a PITA...

    It just seems to me that even simple concepts are not well executed at this point. I mean is there seriously no way to do radio buttons (only one button of several can be on at one point)? I've tried to do a Multi-Toggle bank of buttons for that purpose and despite the fact that this looks to be EXACTLY what's needed, the buttons work like independent latching buttons instead of radio type buttons. Same goes for the push buttons. From what I can ascertain, every time a button is released, it sends an off (0) value which, while is probably the logical behavior, seems to cause M8 to switch back to the first layerset...

    All in all, I'm just having a heck of a time getting anything even remotely complex working. I'm pretty well versed in MIDI, but my lack of experience in OSC is really frustrating me at this point. I mean, I THINK I understand what's going on, and I just can't imagine that simple issues like the ones I'm encountering haven't been addressed in some way, but unfortunately, I just can't see how at this point.

    Is there anyone out there that could possibly shed some light on this subject? Is it just that TouchOSC doesn't support the right options (seems possible to me)? Is it a shortcoming in Modul8? What's the deal?

    At this point, all I know is that if I had ever purchased a Lemur and it worked like this, that unit would have been returned to the distributor by now...
  • mowgli_uk
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    by mowgli_uk » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:58 am

    Good to see I'm not alone on this.

    As I mentioned I'm a noob when it comes to OSC but I have a feeling that many limitations are caused by the touchOSC editor and its lack of control over the sent OSC messages.

    The multi-fader and multi-toggles have proved to be pretty useless without using osculator as you don't have direct access to address each button or fader separately. You can address the multi-whatever as a whole but each item within it is subsequently addressed automatically with increasing numbers. This works ok in some instances ie
    I started using a multi-fader with 5 sliders to address layer bank A. fine. But when you repeat the process with a new multifader to control layers 6-10 you can't seem to do it as the increasing numbers always start at 1. The workaround for this is to have a single multi-fader to control the 10 layers but this beats the point. I've had to use single faders to control each layer. Also I don't get why there's no multi-push interface element.

    My main reason to use OSC is receiving feedback so that my touchOSC interface is always updated when changing layer sets etc. Overall it' kind of works but it seems quite flakey. As I've progressed through my interface design, elements that were working ok have suddenly stopped working properly for no apparent reason. There seems to be a problem when you have more than one interface element with the same address. ie:
    I have leds which respond whenever a layer is active ( they respond in the opposite way that I'd like them too I must add but they do respond) they worked fine until I duplicated them over 2 pages and their behaviour became very erratic.

    My conclusion so far is that to implement proper toggle and radio button functions etc you have to use osculator or similar and get quite involved with OSC. Not only that, but you'd actually need 2 osculator documents running in parallel one to process the input to md8 and one to process the output from md8 which makes the whole process the exact opposite of what I was hoping - plug and play simplicity.

    Also it seems like trying to receive too much OSC feedback is not a good idea. Is there a limit as to how many OSC messages can be sent reliably in one go?
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    gmint
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    by gmint » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:31 pm

    Yep, I have to agree with everything you've said. All in all, it just seems to me like OSC is a really good idea that is still VERY much in its infancy. It kind of sucks when you hear all of these great things about a technology and then when you actually get into it, it's so limited. I mean, OSC has been around for quite a while now and I've heard people talking like it's going to replace MIDI any day now. Unfortunately, the bottom line is that unless there's something out there that's FAR more robust than TouchOSC, that's not happening any time soon.

    Quite frankly, I have to wonder why the guy doing TouchOSC doesn't just quit wasting his time on OSC and get his program doing MIDI directly. As far as I can tell, it seems like you're probably better off using OSCulator to convert everything to MIDI anyways.

    All I can say is that I'm pretty disappointed with OSC in general at this point.

    --EDIT--
    Oh, and FWIW, I think the reason you and I feel alone on this is probably because we pretty much are. Quite honestly, I think there are a few really hardcore guys out there that might have this working, but I'm willing to bet that you could probably count that number on one hand...
  • mowgli_uk
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    by mowgli_uk » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:52 pm

    Although I do share some of your frustrations I've still managed to build a fairly specialised interface which works solely with OSC and updates itself to a certain extent which is more than i could do with my MIDI controllers. I still don't know if it is possible to select a layer directly from Touch OSC or to send feedback regarding this from md8 but I find it strange that something apparently so basic is causing me plenty of headaches.

    It's true that I haven't achieved what I had in mind at the start but I imagine that touchOSC will be developed further mainly with the iPad in mind so I still have hopes.
    I've seen plenty of people already using iphones and ipod touch as controllers although I guess everyone is using osculator but I don't get it, why not work natively in OSC?
    From what I've seen it would be possible to make what I'm after using osculator but it would be a huge task to set up so it defeats the whole point of the exercise
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    gmint
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    by gmint » Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:21 pm

    mowgli_uk wrote:From what I've seen it would be possible to make what I'm after using osculator but it would be a huge task to set up so it defeats the whole point of the exercise


    You hit the nail on the head there. Call me a perfectionist, but I want a layout that works 100% the way I want it to. Although I've never taken the time to set up a controller completely in Modul8 (because I don't use it enough to justify the time), I do have my BCR2000 working just about exactly like I want it to with Traktor (which I use much more frequently). It took some tweaking in Traktor, but in reality, once I decided what I wanted, the actual setup didn't take all that long. With OSCulator, I get the feeling that I could be screwing with this thing forever to make it work the way I want.

    Also, if you'd be willing to share, I'd love to see what you've got going on with your layout. If not, I certainly understand, after all, you've probably put a LOT of time into it! :)
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    by mowgli_uk » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:20 pm

    I was planning to share the template once finished but it is not looking likely that I'll accomplish what I wanted with just osc which was the whole point. i was trying to make something that would work straight away with any modul8 on any computer but I'll have to settle for just a set of tools not a full on mixer. I'll keep you informed.
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    sigmasix
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    by sigmasix » Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:41 am

    The problem is that some keywords in modul8 can be applied to specific layers, and some others to master controls… Selecting a layer or a layerset is one of those things… You don't need to give a vaue to specify a layer to apply your value on, but instead, you use the value itself to specify the layer / layerset. So the problem comes from the touchOSC editor wich doesn't allow you to specify a custom value that is being sent by touchOSC… We asked the touchOSC guy about that feature and it appears like it will appear in the next release.

    For the media sets it's a bit of a different problem… I'll explain it later if you want, it's a bit late for me just now :cry:
  • mowgli_uk
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    by mowgli_uk » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:49 pm

    Thanks for clearing that up sigmasix. So there's still hope then. I'll put the project on standby for the time being.
  • mowgli_uk
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    by mowgli_uk » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:41 pm

    gmint wrote:
    mowgli_uk wrote:I've never taken the time to set up a controller completely in Modul8 )


    I've done this numerous times with different controllers but the issue was not having the possibility of getting feedback to the controller to avoid having to look at the screen as much as possible. I'm hoping that touchOSC will soon be able to achieve that fully, including targeting modules, not just the main interface.
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    by rafidean » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:28 am

    hey guys. i've just started digging into TouchOSC on my iPhone, pretty much as a test before I buy the iPad (if it works).

    similar to you guys, i'm running into some OSC limitations and I can't get my head around it!

    So far I've managed to get all the faders for 10 layers working and the crossfader. however I can't get any feedback working. I'm pretty sure my port & target IP are correct. The little green & red lights on the iPhone are blinking, but faders aren't moving in unison.

    Other than that, I'm really struggling trying to get the ctrl_layer_media to work.

    I've set up an 4x4 grid of push buttons in TouchOSC for picking media clips, the OSC commands go like this:

    /md8key/ctrl_layer_media/1
    /md8key/ctrl_layer_media/2
    /md8key/ctrl_layer_media/3 etc etc

    i've got another set of 8 push buttons to select the focus layer:

    /md8key/ctrl_layerStack_focusPosition/1 etc etc

    Another 8 buttons for selecting media set:

    /md8key/ctrl_layer_mediaSet/1 etc etc


    OK here's what happens now:

    in my 4x4 grid, the grid buttons 1 thru 10 selects layer 1 thru 10 (instead of the focus layer) and can only toggle between clips N'0 and N'1, but only for as long as i hold down the button. same goes for the buttons selecting media set.

    the focus layer buttons don't seem to work at all!

    What am i doing wrong here?

    I'm basically trying to get a bunch of buttons to select the layer, another bunch of buttons to select the media set and the grid to pick the clips.

    Help?
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    The Midi Thief
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    by The Midi Thief » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:18 am

    I am trying to get OSCulator to bypass OSC messages for keywords while OSC messages for Modules are converted to MIDI messages. It seems like it's possible but I can't get the settings right. Can someone walk me through it? I need the settings for OSCulator and the settings for the OSC (Global) Module.
  • mowgli_uk
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    by mowgli_uk » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:51 pm

    What you want is possible but I haven't touched this for a while so I can't explain it off the top of my head. I'll have a look when I have a minute and get back to you.
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    4youreye
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    by 4youreye » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:40 am

    i have a layout for download and testing

    http://www.garagecube.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5162

    i´m just at an event and worked the whole night with it and it did a really god job

    the next task for me is to get the layer, group inv,.. working

    it´s tricky

    cheers
    gery
  • danielvulrich
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    by danielvulrich » Tue May 24, 2011 5:10 pm

    @ 4youreye
    thanx for your link

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