8 Outputs @ 4k
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    caneron
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    8 Outputs @ 4k

    by caneron » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:27 pm

    Trying to figure out the best way to do this out of a single machine. Thought I'd posted about this before but couldn't find the thread.

    I can easily get 4 outputs @ 4k no problem with a single P4000 card

    However, as soon as I start using the second P4000 card and use any of the outputs on it at 4k, my frame rate becomes trash.

    With that same config I can easily get 8 outputs at 1080 using both cards and get a good frame rate (or even 16 outputs at 1080 using MST or FX4s out of one of the cards).

    Has anyone got this to work out of a single machine yet?

    System specs:
    i9 8-Core
    64 GBs Ram
    2x P4000
    M2 SSD 1TB
  • mad-matt
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by mad-matt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:10 pm

    P4000 is not so good, nVidia RTX 2080 is cheaper and has better performances (2x faster): https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/N ... 6vsm250990
  • simonhu
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by simonhu » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:54 pm

    Hi,
    I guess that Nvidia Geforce cards will not solve your problems, it probably makes your situation more frustrating...

    Geforce cards do not allow you to set ID on the Outputs. The number of connected outputs are defined from Windows. Once you have reboot your PC, you struggle with putting correct output destinations to the correct projectors. After every reboot Windows will put your projector by random numbering.

    The only solution in my mind is using a Quadro card oder Matrox, Advoli. There you can define exact each output destinations as well you can set the EDID manually. Those functionality are only available with professional graphic card or I am wrong?

    Propably thats the reason why you are using P4000 cards and not more powerful and cheaper Geforce cards!?

    Have you done any tests with a quadro P5000 cards? I know, those cost more than a car...
    We made some tests with an 6x HDBaseT card (advoli). We got a good frame rate although we saw stutterings in the video. The stutter at 60fps was by far not so bad as it is with a P4000 with 4 outputs.
  • mad-matt
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by mad-matt » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:40 pm

    Geforce cards do not allow you to set ID on the Outputs. The number of connected outputs are defined from Windows. Once you have reboot your PC, you struggle with putting correct output destinations to the correct projectors. After every reboot Windows will put your projector by random numbering.
    MadMapper 4.0 will identify connected devices using the serial number given in the EDID. So it should solve this kind of output swapping issues. You can alwready try with the beta version (from beta 7 if I'm not wrong)
    Also those problems donnot happen for me with my office setup (an nVidia 1080 with 4 outputs and an AMD with 3 outputs). Iread a few things about it. In some situations we can't solve, but MadMapper 4.0 using projector/screen serial number will solve (except if the manufacturer is not feeding serial number or setting the same on a whole production of the same device, but I suppose it won't happen with serious hardware as it even doesn't happen with my cheap monitors)
    The stutter at 60fps was by far not so bad as it is with a P4000 with 4 outputs
    We're working at making things smoother on Windows in 4.0. It should be out in the final release. The problem is synchronization between our engine => OpenGL driver => ... => projectors/screens is a mess on Windows, so we're investigating using Windows native things for the output. Should be in beta 8 if everything is ok. If you're interested to test, PM me.
  • simonhu
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by simonhu » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:55 am

    Hi,
    thanks for your update regarding making animations smoother. I really look forward to test any improvements here in our demo room with different graphic cards and media servers.
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    caneron
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by caneron » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:20 pm

    We've been using the P4000s because of the EDID management tool (this solves the screen ID issue), card sync, and for their size as well. In a small rack unit it makes a big difference! They're apparently end of life so we're slowly moving over to the RTX 4000s - which in terms of performance are a hair better than the P4000s.

    @Mad-Matt have you been able to get 60 FPS using multiple cards and 5+ 4k outputs?

    Have not tested with P5000s because of the price.

    Having run some tests today here's what we've found with 2x 8GB P4000 cards
    MM 3.7.5
    File is 32k HAP (4 columns, 2 rows)
    Setting card 01 as "Make Main Display"
    1-4 outputs at 4k out of card 01
    5-6 outputs at 4k out of card 02
    Runs at 30 FPS - and we have a baked counter that shows us whether or not it's dropping frames. Runs fine, clean.
    As soon we add outputs 07-08 our MadMapper FPS display still reads at 30 FPS but we see a significant drop in frames (re: our baked counter). Our GPU utilization floats around 70% in Card 01, and 41% in Card 02 (either in the 6 output config or the 8 output config).
    So 6 outputs at a very good frame rate. That's good. But for some reason 7 and 8 aren't happy.

    I should mention that when I'm trying to hit 7+ @ 4k and I'm watching the NVIDIA performance monitor, I'm not seeing any red flags but my frame rate is trash.

    For fun we tried to make card 02 as "Make Main Display" and relaunched Mad.
    Working in this configuration, the MadMapper frame rate reader shows as reading <20 FPS even with 6 displays.
    Our GPU utilization floats around 70% in Card 01 (even though not primary card), and around 80% in card 02. Much more struggle when utilizing card 02 as the primary card even though they are the same cards. Good to know.

    We also controlled for EDID management. We tried different 4k EDIDs on each card and then the same EDIDs across both cards, results were the same.

    The HAP file we are using to test I'm happy to share via PM but it's HUGE (120+GB)!
  • franz
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by franz » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:39 pm

    we're making a beta 8 of MM4 that should address these issues,
    using directX to push the frames to your graphic card.

    Be sure to test when it is out,
    and please report back !
    cheers
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    caneron
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by caneron » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:02 pm

    As usual, hell yeah, Franz! Looking forward to it. I imagine I can use my same bench test MM file and go from there? Exciting!

    A little update.

    Just did a test using the newer RTX 4000s (8GB) and the performance with 3.7.5 is definitely better. The graphics card utilization is better too, 55% on the primary card, 38-42% on the second card. No massive surprise there considering it is a better card.

    The big difference is that I can get 7 outputs at 4k, the frame rate displays as 30 FPS, my baked frame rate checker is probably around 20 FPS. Definitely passable for the layperson and adding an 8th output at 1080, the results are about the same.

    6 outputs at 4k still performs at 30/30 so the bump is still at the 7th output, just less noticeable with the RTX 4000.

    After testing a bunch of different scenarios, it does seem that it matters which outputs are in which cards and what order they're in. So that's also similar to the P4000 issues.
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    caneron
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by caneron » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:11 pm

    Latest 4.0.0 Beta 8, I have 7x at 4k running perfectly using the new Direct3D feature.

    Next up is testing this overnight on the RTX 4000
    Then I will try it on the P4000 config.

    With MST + RTX that means you could have 28 1080 monitors out of a single machine with 2x RTX cards. All in sync. INSANE!
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    caneron
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    Re: 8 Outputs @ 4k

    by caneron » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:12 am

    Have tried the same tests using dual P4000s and they don't perform nearly as well as the RTX 4000s.

    The only other difference between the machines is the motherboard (RAM, processor, M2s are the same).

    I can't swap the RTX 4000s out right now to cross check but I'll do that in the future.

    Worth noting with the RTX 4000, I can get 8@4k, but I really want to keep one of the 8 outputs for control. Have learned that using the onboard for the control monitor adds more overhead than it's worth. When you have a single GPU + On Board it doesn't make much of a difference, but with multiple cards and on-board it doesn't work well.

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