Interface Blocked again
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    chromafresh
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    Interface Blocked again

    by chromafresh » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:58 am

    It happened again last night. I have clips on the media bank assigned to keys. I was selecting clips with keys last night when my interface stops accepting mouse commands again. This was after about 2 hours of play. So far it happens about once every 2 times I use the software.

    As usual I could still use key commands and it took a force quit to leave the software.

    I also had the same bug someone else had before where I could copy clips and then the pixel effects (contrast/color/etc) were applied to media, but the interfance buttons aren't active, so a user has to try to look for the effects that are the cause until they find it.
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    yves@garagecube
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    Re: Interface Blocked again

    by yves@garagecube » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:38 pm

    What would be very useful for us is a way to reproduce these problems. I know it is not easy, but if you find it, it would be very very useful, because at this time we were not able to reproduce them here.

    Yves.
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    by moonbase » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:22 am

    chromafresh -
    i reckon it was I who had the random auto application of the invert output upon loading clips.
    http://www.garagecube.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=423
    But I have never had the refusal to accept mouse commands.

    Yves - very hard to know what info to send you - it does not happen every time for me.

    I just now fired up Modul8 ten times in a row to try and bring it on, imported media but all was ok each time!

    But three nights ago the 'invert output sliders' all (3) went to max at the instant i did an 'Apple I' as my very first action after starting Modul8. Or nearly my first action -
    I start Modul8 then click on the 'project name bar' in order to send any open modules back behind the interface, 'Apple I' and that is the moment when the 'Invert Colour Sliders' CAN set themselves.
    There doesn't seem to be any pattern to it that I can see.

    System is iBook G4, screen hack, V2.01, external hard drive, max ram, 10.3.. panther (the most up to date)
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    boris
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    by boris » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:37 pm

    One question to chromafresh...
    Do you use some custom module(s) Usually ?
    Boris * garageCube team
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    by chromafresh » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:43 pm

    I use BPM, Vibrator (the problem was happening before Vibrator was released), and Transform 8 Preset SM alot.

    Thats about it.

    I can't recall any other symptoms but I'll try to pay more attention next time it happens.
    By the way we have to do a performance for a couple hours at the Tokyo Ginza Apple Store next tuesday!! There are rumors that big execs from Cupertino may be in the area!! Cross your fingers that all goes well.
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    by yves@garagecube » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:43 pm

    Please could you try to create a user with english language instead of japanese and try Modul8 from here to see if you can reproduce the problem in this context.

    Also, good luck for the presentation. It sounds cool!

    Thanks!
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    by chromafresh » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:52 am

    Yves,
    Actually I am using the system in English language mode! But I have the "option" of switching to japanese text-entry available to me. With this option availabe, the system has "kotoeri" which is the Japanese text entry "extension."
    With kotoeri available, and with Macs sold in Japan:
    - on the left of the spacebar is a key for choosing entry one-byte english characters
    - on the right of the spacebar is a key for choosing entry of two-byte japanese characters
    - pressing "command-space" switches between languages and text entry modes within kotoeri, so that people who use korean, chinese, arabic or others could toggle from one to the other, etc.

    I suspect that the problem is connected to the japanese text entry or the Japanese keyboard as this seems to be only happening to my partner and I. Also we use the space bar alot to swich between A and B sets, and the spacebar's proximity to these other keys seems kind of suspicious.
    The one thing that makes me doubt this was that the other night the problem cropped up just after I started using number keys to change media within a layer, and then tried to do something in the interface only to find that it didn't work anymore. Of course, I may still have been hitting the space bar a bit here and there, but I don't remember that for sure.

    I'll try to pay closer attention next time! :(
    -b

    PS - That reminds me. A Japanese club music did a feature on VJs and getting started in VJing recently and we had a small interview along with about four other teams. Unfortunately they got alot of their facts wrong and we were quoted out of context a bit, but they did put in comments about how we had gotten back into VJing largely because of Modul8 and its potential and how our style works perfectly with the software..." and that was about it. I had spoken for a bit about the software, so I was glad something got in.
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    by chromafresh » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:25 am

    OK I think I figured out when the blockage problem is occuring and it does indeed seem to be connected to the Japanese keyboard.

    The biggest difference between the Japanese keyboard and the US (etc.) keyboard is the addition of an extra key on the left and right of the space bar. These are the "EISUU" (english/numbers) key on the left and the "KANA" (japanese phonetic) key on the right. I thought the lockup problem seemed to be occuring more when I was hitting space and control before, which are set up to do an A/B switch and "invert" in that order, but I suspected the "KANA" key might be the culprit and I had a very distinct moment the recently when I hit the "KANA" key by accident, noticed that I had done so, and then the interface froze and I had to force quite again. I can replicate the problem too.
    Its the KANA key for sure.

    So the KANA key tries to put M8 into Japanese mode, and this prevents any access to the interface or menus, and it won't allow the user to come out of this mode without force quitting and restarting the software.
    Incidentally switching ot japanese mode normally using the menus or the standard command-space shortcut to access Japanese mode DOES NOT cause the same problem, and the KANA key does, 100% of the time.

    I don't know if your developer info can get you info on these keys, but you're going to have to disable the functionality of these keys somehow. Or set them to map to anything but what they are designed for. As it is, since text entry in the text module doesn't work in Japanese anyway, it shouldn't affect anything, and even when the text module is ready to work with Japanese, users can still access Japanese text entry from the menu or standard shortcut. I guess the question is why does the KANA key lock up the software when other Japanese mode toggles don't. Essentially its supposed to be doing the same thing. I can't find a workaround, though now that I know what to be careful of, I'll be more careful of these keys.
    Can you please look into fixing this?
    I know its a non-issue for everyone else, but for Japanese users this could be a huge problem.

    Regards,
    -b
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    by stuart » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:00 pm

    Wow,

    you have unwittingly solved an after effects problem for me. All of the AE keyboard shortcuts fail when modes are switched.
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    by yves@garagecube » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:56 pm

    stuart wrote:Wow,

    you have unwittingly solved an after effects problem for me. All of the AE keyboard shortcuts fail when modes are switched.


    So at least we are not the only ones to have this problem. The way only to fix this problem would to try find one of this keyboard. I'll see of I can buy one on the Apple Store to check that...

    Thank you for your precious help,
    Yves.
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    by chromafresh » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:37 am

    I just realized that the "EISUU" (English Letters/Numbers) key to the left of the space bar also freezes the program.
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    by sigmasix » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:57 am

    maybe if you create a japanese nib the localization would solve the problem... I can't imagine that developers should have so many troubles with that kind of keyboard... there must be an easy way to work with that :wink:

    they say here http://developer.apple.com/regions/japan/japanguide.pdf:
    For developers, Apple has incorporated frameworks for handling multiple languages into the Mac OS. These include
    programming interfaces for drawing, font management, internationalization, text management, and Unicode.
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    by yves@garagecube » Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:09 pm

    I know that it is very irrational, but most of these problems come from QT actually. We have a couple of critical optimizations for multi-threading and QT which cause this conflict with the keyboard. Fixing this problem requires a deep revision of our engine, so unfortunately it won't be fixed before the V3.0 (unless a new QT version is released with better multithreading support, but I'm sceptikal about that).

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