Help with Understanding How MiniMad Export Handles Different Input Positions for a Quad
  • fussylizard
    junior Member
    Posts: 2
    Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:21 am

    Help with Understanding How MiniMad Export Handles Different Input Positions for a Quad

    by fussylizard » Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:46 am

    (Since this is a bit of a complicated question, I recorded a video to show what I'm doing that may be more clear: https://youtu.be/VyaUT6KMYZA)

    I am trying to understand how MadMapper outputs projects to the MiniMad, specifically regarding a quad's input position relative to media content. I'm trying to have multiple cues that all use the same quads, and each cue has a different video assigned to all quads (since MiniMad only supports a single video at a time). The input position for those quads can be different in each cue, as I'm trying to have different parts of the video show up in some inverted masks. But each time I export the project to my MiniMad, some of the cues have the correct quad input position, and others don't. If I export again, sometimes some cues get fixed while others get broken which is super confusing and annoying.

    In order to better understand the behavior, I created a couple of simple experiment projects and got some confusing (to me at least!) results. Based on these experiments, I think I have discovered two limitations of the MiniMad:
    - When you export to MiniMad, you are exporting media, not cues that use the media. If you have multiple cues with the same media used, the settings for only one cue are used. I'm not sure how MadMapper decides which cue's settings to use.
    - Each quad can have a single input position for all media that is exported to MiniMad. You can't have one cue where the quad's input is in one position relative to its media, and another cue where the quad's input is in another position relative to its media. I'm not sure how MadMapper decides which input position to use for the quad if there are multiple cues with different input positions in the project.

    Is this correct?

    Here's what I did that leads me to this conclusion:

    Setup: One 10-second video applied to a single quad. The quad has an inverted mask attached to the output. The quad was then dragged into three cues, and each cue had the quad's input positioned differently so for each cue, a different part of the video is visible in the mask. The project was then exported to a MiniMad.

    Expected result: I expected the MiniMad to play three different cues for 10 seconds each. Each cue would then show a different part of the video in the (inverted) masked area.

    Actual result: I seem to have gotten only a single cue. Basically, I see the same content restarting every 10 seconds (the length of the video) with the media in the same position.

    So I thought that maybe the MiniMad only supported each video in a single cue. So ran another experiment:

    Setup: I took my test video from the first experiment and made three versions of it, and then applied those to the three cues. So each cue has the same quad but with a different video, and in each cue the quad's input position is shifted to different parts of the input video for the cue. The project was then exported to a MiniMad.

    Expected result: I expected the MiniMad to play three different cues for 10 seconds each. Each cue would then show a different part of the video.

    Actual result: I got three cues, but it seems like the quad's input position is the same for all 3 cues. In my case, cue 3 looks correct. Cues 1 and 2 show the content as if their quad's input position was the same as it was set for the third cue, not the content that should have been visible based on their quad's input position.
  • Pierre Guilluy
    garageCube team
    Posts: 454
    Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:50 pm

    Re: Help with Understanding How MiniMad Export Handles Different Input Positions for a Quad

    by Pierre Guilluy » Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:13 pm

    For the moment, the MiniMad, using MiniMad Video app, is basically a media-player that support video-mapping.

    As stated on MiniMad webpage: "With the tiny MiniMad, you export quad, triangle circle or mask surfaces as well as their content from a selected projector in MadMapper."

    When exporting to the MiniMad, MadMapper will transfer the actual mapping, together with image & movie files, which you can switch between using MiniMad's controls.
    Cues are not supported for moment.

    If you would like to export a whole show with animated controls, you can record MadMapper's output using a third-party application through Syphon/Spout or NDI, then import the recorded video in a new project which will be exported to the MiniMad.
  • fussylizard
    junior Member
    Posts: 2
    Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:21 am

    Re: Help with Understanding How MiniMad Export Handles Different Input Positions for a Quad

    by fussylizard » Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:48 pm

    Thanks for the insights, and happy 2024!

    I'm finally understanding that the MiniMad really only looks at media files, not cues. But in MadMapper, everything is driven by cues, so the exporting is a little strange since it works based on media, not cues.

    So if I have 5 cues that share the same video but have different input positions for the quad, and I export to MiniMad, I only get one video output. How does MadMapper/MiniMad decide which input quad position to use? Does it take it from the first cue in the grid? From the currently active quad settings? Somewhere else?

    I think what I need to do to get what I want is to ensure all cues have unique videos, and the input positioning for the quads in each cue are the same across all cues. If I need to adjust the positioning of a video, I need to edit the video to shift it to the desired position instead of changing the input quad position. I'm thinking I'll end up playing each original video using Resolume to Syphon, then in MadMapper read the Syphon stream. I can use Resolume settings to figure out the correct video offset I need, and then edit the video in Davinci Resolve using the offset I figured out from Resolume. I can then import the edited video into MadMapper. It's a lot of steps, but at least I think it will get me what I want.

    If you have any suggestions on a better workflow, please let me know!
  • Pierre Guilluy
    garageCube team
    Posts: 454
    Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:50 pm

    Re: Help with Understanding How MiniMad Export Handles Different Input Positions for a Quad

    by Pierre Guilluy » Tue Jan 23, 2024 6:49 pm

    MiniMad was released way before the cues actually arrive in MadMapper.
    MadMapper will export the surfaces in their current state at the time of the export.

    If you want to shift between different surfaces states, I advice you record MadMapper's output using a Syphon/Spout/NDI video-recording software, then import the recorded video in a new MadMapper project to be mapped on a fullscreen surface and finally exported to the MiniMad. The downside of this solution is that it's then impossible to adjust each individual position, luminosity and contrast.

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